tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post7391802586084355573..comments2024-03-24T13:51:58.601-05:00Comments on Desert's Child: The Iker diocese examinedKatie Sherrodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09159503802660122104noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-74675620157476270132009-01-21T21:35:00.000-06:002009-01-21T21:35:00.000-06:00"There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor o..."There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity . . .You can smell it. It smells like death."<BR/>Tennessee Williams, Cat on a Hot Tin RoofElizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-60043050676556351532009-01-21T09:18:00.000-06:002009-01-21T09:18:00.000-06:00I agree with taomikael. I'm not a nationalist beca...I agree with taomikael. I'm not a nationalist because of my Christian beliefs. My loyalty is with the Reign of God and not with any nation. Which, of course, makes me a bad estadoünidense.Padre Mickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07580459577853346369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-53150213938587961522009-01-20T09:47:00.000-06:002009-01-20T09:47:00.000-06:00Since he had so much fun in claiming that a Moslem...Since he had so much fun in claiming that a Moslem could not be a good American, perhaps it would be fun to challenge him right back by noting that a Christianist of his persuasion equally could not be a good American. Since he necessarily holds that only his God is sovereign, and the Constitution holds that the people are sovereign, that the highest authority in the land is the Constitution, therefore, he cannot be a good American.taomikaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04152074305685769763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-17918350905071956322009-01-20T09:04:00.000-06:002009-01-20T09:04:00.000-06:00Iker and co. continually point to the C&C as n...Iker and co. continually point to the C&C as not prohibiting a diocese from leaving TEC. However, the C&C <B>does</B> provide a mechanism whereby dioceses <B>outside</B> the US may leave. These dioceses are all termed Missionary Dioceses - the only definition of which in the C&C is:<BR/><BR/>"Missionary Dioceses...shall constitute jurisdictions for which this Church as a whole assumes a special responsibility."<BR/><BR/>In all other respects, however, these dioceses are formed, structured and function just as any other domestic diocese:<BR/><BR/>- They are admitted into union with General Convention via acknowledging the TEC C&C<BR/>- They have a Diocesan Convention and Standing Committee<BR/>- They are governed by Diocesan Constitution and Canons<BR/>- They elect a bishop by Diocesan Convention<BR/>- They elect Deputies to General Convention<BR/>- They elect Deputies to Provincial Synod<BR/>- They adopt an annual budget and program, and provide for its administration<BR/><BR/>Structurally, Missionary Dioceses are <B>identical</B> to a domestic diocese. The only difference is that they exist outside of the US, but they are, to all intents and purposes, 'dioceses' of TEC.<BR/><BR/>If a Missionary Diocese wishes to leave the Episcopal Church for another <B>neighbouring (nb)</B> province, it must:<BR/>- pass such a motion at its Diocesan Convention and then forward that request to the General Convention<BR/>- undergo a 3 year trial period between conventions<BR/>- the next Convention may either grant or deny the request, or extend the trial period<BR/><BR/>From this we could conclude a number of things:<BR/>- that it is an unwritten assumption in the C&C that <B>only</B> non-domestic dioceses may leave TEC, therefore only <B>they</B> are provided with a mechanism to do so. If TEC had contemplated the possibility of a domestic diocese leaving they would have provided a mechanism. Provision is provided for domestic dioceses to revert to Area Mission status, or be subsumed into or unite with a neighbouring diocese, but not leave. The explicit granting of such provision to non-domestic dioceses, while only providing for Area Mission/uniting for domestic ones shows that the C&C does not make it possible. It is unwritten but explicitly assumed.<BR/>- However, if we generously grant the possibility that a domestic diocese <B>may</B> leave TEC, then why should their process for leaving be any different from that of a Missionary Diocese? What is different about them that does not require a similar process? Why did the dioceses that are now part of the provinces of Mexico, Central America and the Philippines require permission from General Convention to leave, but those dioceses who now claim to be part of the Southern Cone did not?<BR/><BR/>It appears clear that the lack of provision in the C&C for a domestic diocese to leave is not affirming that any such diocese may leave at any time without approval by GC. It is a sign that it was not envisaged that a diocese could do so, and so no mechanism was provided. If, however, we grant that a domestic diocese may leave, then it is clear that such a leaving process could not be along lines different from non-domestic dioceses who a formed, structured, and governed identically to domestic ones.Ecclesia Anglicanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13796722492190089683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-54185204542172253752009-01-20T07:45:00.000-06:002009-01-20T07:45:00.000-06:00I will see you one Fisher and raise you one A. S. ...I will see you one Fisher and raise you one A. S. Haley.<BR/><BR/>Psssst! Do you know what they call 1,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?<BR/><BR/>A good start!Frank Remkiewicz aka “Tree”https://www.blogger.com/profile/00501821790434895826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-18691909760760328522009-01-20T02:25:00.000-06:002009-01-20T02:25:00.000-06:00HE makes some interesting assumptions, particularl...HE makes some interesting assumptions, particularly since the D.FTW was incorporated after the passage of the Dennis canon. I'm not sure if the petition could be considered a contract, but the Diocese certainly received consideration in return (use of the TEC name, clergy benefits, etc.) He certaily doesn't understand that a diocese is, by definition, part of a large and whole church.<BR/><BR/>And let's face it, "non-profit" just means you don't have to pay taxes under certain circumstances, it provides no holy mantle of respectability...and they are governed by specific laws. If the national church sued to have the word "Episcopal" removed from the Iker-led group's name, it wouldn't be the first time a nationalnon-profit has done so (although usually there's a name change to avoid a lawsuit).<BR/><BR/>Oh, and what Leonardo said. Something odd in that Co-cola.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09748809418423591030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-82877519289364436462009-01-20T00:48:00.000-06:002009-01-20T00:48:00.000-06:00What Robert said. I can only hope that these "bel...What Robert said. I can only hope that these "beliefs" are held by a majority of 1.Frank Remkiewicz aka “Tree”https://www.blogger.com/profile/00501821790434895826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-3978639891932808182009-01-19T21:00:00.000-06:002009-01-19T21:00:00.000-06:00Really, do all them thar conservativo fellas down ...Really, do all them thar conservativo fellas down deep in Fort Worth drink heavy dur´n the daytime as well as night?Leonardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16667415590825321701noreply@blogger.com