tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post2697597001979708391..comments2024-03-24T13:51:58.601-05:00Comments on Desert's Child: Canon Kearon speaksKatie Sherrodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09159503802660122104noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-3803231855977530112010-06-27T16:00:35.686-05:002010-06-27T16:00:35.686-05:00Katie,
This reminder that you are serving on Exec...Katie,<br /><br />This reminder that you are serving on Executive Council made me happier than a dead pig in the sun. Thank God for your sense of humor; otherwise, you surely would have lost your mind before you were half-way through the session you describe.The Rev. John Kirkleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17915490727988762513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-65074957178888227122010-06-27T14:10:32.223-05:002010-06-27T14:10:32.223-05:00Donald and all, the more I think about Canon Kearo...Donald and all, the more I think about Canon Kearon's words...<br /><br /><i> "the diversity of opinions in the communion and diversity in general as a problem and sought some mechanisms to address it."</i><br /><br />...the more certain I am that those who see diversity as "a problem", <b>are the ones with the problem</b>.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-59515688878657023312010-06-27T07:24:53.436-05:002010-06-27T07:24:53.436-05:00Dear Katie,
Thanks for your reporting on the Execu...Dear Katie,<br />Thanks for your reporting on the Executive Council meeting. I am a rather practical sort and find his logic (if that is what you can call it) appalling. It would be nice if we saw diversity in light of eternity. I tell my parish that we are going to have to spend an eternity together so we should work at getting along together here. Maybe the old adage "The Church is a lot like the Ark is appropriate. People don't want to go in because of the stink, and they don't want to go out because of the storm." BIG THANKS to all of you serving on the Executive Council and being God's prophetic voice.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11486896709853424983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-79694459905902494052010-06-26T12:34:41.090-05:002010-06-26T12:34:41.090-05:00The argument that TEC presence in the Communion pr...The argument that TEC presence in the Communion provides support for the marginalized in other churches is the <i>only</i> argument for remaining in this dysfunctional communion that I find at all compelling. If we were <i>not</i> in the Anglican Communion, however, we might even be able to do more for these people. We could plant Episcopal parishes in Nigeria, for example. Of course, given the apparent “rules” in the Communion now, I guess we could get away with that even while we are <i>in</i> the Communion.Lionel Deimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-10368914727170646192010-06-26T11:43:39.612-05:002010-06-26T11:43:39.612-05:00Al and Lionel, I once thought as you do, but the a...Al and Lionel, I once thought as you do, but the appeals from the marginalized in other churches in the Communion for us not to leave changed my thinking. Our brothers and sisters in those provinces look to the Episcopal Church for encouragement and support, and I believe we should not abandon them.<br /><br />Nor should we abandon our principles of justice and equality for all, for the sake of unity. Ends don't justify unjust means. But I believe that we should strive to keep our place at the AC table, until we are involuntarily cut off, which, after all, may not happen. Just my 2 pennies.June Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723016934182800437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-33889906059130051582010-06-26T11:19:59.297-05:002010-06-26T11:19:59.297-05:00Al,
Where do we sign up?Al,<br /><br />Where do we sign up?Lionel Deimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363018512775944659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-5957105482541256492010-06-26T11:05:07.005-05:002010-06-26T11:05:07.005-05:00A great article and much food for thought. I wond...A great article and much food for thought. I wonder if leadership of the Anglican Communion has realized just how little they mean to the average person. There seems to be a lot of "sound and fury signifying nothing." <br /><br />If The Episcopal Church is disassociated from the Communion, as it appears to be now by the communion's leadership, or if it were to depart and form a New Communion of those provinces around the world that are of a like mind, do those in Canterbury or Africa or the Southern Cone really think huge numbers of Americans will abandon The Episcopal Church for what they offer? Seriously!<br /><br />Maybe it is time for a new Episcopal Reformation with commitment to the Gospel, enlightenment, inclusion, and relevance central to its practice. Maybe The Episcopal Church should stop arguing for its place in a body whose time has past and throw its energy and faith into being about Christ's great command to go forth with the Good News. I can think of lots of places such missionary efforts could focus: The Southern Cone, Africa, and last but not least, Canterbury!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16828322297021917257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-15627642556761955942010-06-25T09:03:47.431-05:002010-06-25T09:03:47.431-05:00Dr. D. If you want to take Christ's comment ab...Dr. D. If you want to take Christ's comment about law out of context, feel free, but the early church struggled with some of that law including, circumcision, food laws, sexual morality and many other issues. So this is nothing new.<br /><br />St. Paul wrote:<br /><br /><i>9The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. </i><br /><br />Romans 13<br /><br />Gay people are as capable of loving neighbour as self as straight people.toujoursdanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08106158181662408311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-69099171706992546642010-06-25T08:35:51.763-05:002010-06-25T08:35:51.763-05:00When someone tells me to "walk away" I g...When someone tells me to "walk away" I get in their path and tell them in no uncertain terms I'm not going anywhere and I'm here to stay, like it or not. The whole concept that one has a right to NOT associate with someone else is antithetical to the Christian gospel. It is the primary driver of evil in this world. Christianity is about inclusion, forgiveness, redemption, transformation, renewal, nurturance, and similar.Rev. David Justin Lynchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00250968772752560668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-48788397059587118522010-06-24T11:43:25.689-05:002010-06-24T11:43:25.689-05:00On reflection -- (which I had some time for on the...On reflection -- (which I had some time for on the BEACH here on the FRENCH RIVIERA! :) it's like a chapter in George Orwell's "Animal Farm" -- remember the part where everybody was equal ... but some were just more equal than the others?SUSAN RUSSELLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01795717638621668638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-77277340252355405382010-06-24T06:07:18.334-05:002010-06-24T06:07:18.334-05:00Is everything a matter of oneupsmanship?
And yet,...<i>Is everything a matter of oneupsmanship?</i><br /><br />And yet, here you are, trying to one-up.<br /><br /><i>. . it all seems pretty arrogant to me. </i><br /><br />Like, for instance, calling someone kindergartners.<br /><br /><i>I do not hate you . . .</i><br /><br />That's good. We don't hate you either.<br /><br /><i>Do any of you happen to recall the idea of obedience to Christ who told us that he came not to change any of the Law at all, rather than simply doing what "we think is right"? </i><br /><br />Yes. We frequently ask the same of you lot. You never give an answer that makes sense.<br /><br /><i>But suit yourselves, as I'm sure you will.</i><br /><br />Then, this was a pointless attempt to harangue and complain - rather like, say, a kindergartner.<br /><br />Do you "conservatives" ever see your own failings?MarkBrunsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971990948866488080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-63955822079550501912010-06-24T02:55:49.955-05:002010-06-24T02:55:49.955-05:00If you put down the mirror for a moment, Dr. D, yo...If you put down the mirror for a moment, Dr. D, you might actually be able to see <i>us</i>, the splendid <b>God-given diversity</b> that is this member of the Body of Christ known as The Episcopal Church. [@ "your ideas of "social justice," trump what the Bible said about things": I really think you've been listening too much to the Apostle Glenn Beck...]<br /><br />***<br /><br /><i>To see theological diversity as a problem is, IMV, a denial of the Incarnation</i><br /><br />Hear, hear, Daniel Weir! :-)<br /><br />***<br /><br />I find Kearon's NON-SEQUITUR to Blancha Echeverry's question (to much <i>linguistic</i> "diversity"?) re The Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral most gob-smacking. Suddenly The Quad has become the "+ 'No Gays' <i>Quint</i>", on WHOSE say-so, exactly? O_oJCFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14516376500318551838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-5472635671368311762010-06-23T20:40:58.000-05:002010-06-23T20:40:58.000-05:00As this post and the following comments make so ab...As this post and the following comments make so abundantly clear, what was once a common faith is no more. The Anglicanism that once existed is long gone, and there is now TEC on the one hand, and on the other hand there is the faith of those who attempt to continue on with the old ways, whether it be ACNA, AMiA, or one of the several Continuing Churches. There is no common ground at all anymore, and we all deceive ourselves if we think that there is.<br /><br />As a member of the Continuing Church, I read this and find myself thinking, "what are these people thinking, why do they react that way?" I see that I have nothing at all in common with you. I do not hate you, I do not have any ill will at all towards you, but I am puzzled by you. <br /><br />The things you find amusing seem so strange to me, rather like a group of kindergartners. What you evidently consider to be witty just seems juvenile and immature. Why are you this way?<br /><br />Is everything a matter of oneupsmanship? Is that what church is about for you? Do any of you happen to recall the idea of obedience to Christ who told us that he came not to change any of the Law at all, rather than simply doing what "we think is right"? Just askin' because you seem so very sure that your ideas, particularly your ideas of "social justice," trump what the Bible said about things, it all seems pretty arrogant to me. But suit yourselves, as I'm sure you will.Dr.Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18360786634583725263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-656624539686447332010-06-23T17:01:06.427-05:002010-06-23T17:01:06.427-05:00Hilarious! Congrats, Katie.
Josh ThomasHilarious! Congrats, Katie.<br /><br />Josh ThomasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-88965130791958777432010-06-23T14:12:03.502-05:002010-06-23T14:12:03.502-05:00Kearon may belong to the Church of Ireland, but hi...Kearon may belong to the Church of Ireland, but his attitude, and the ABC's, are pure British imperialism. If he's actually Irish, he should understand his own history better, vis-a-vis English colonialism. And I'd also bid him remember that the Church of Ireland produced its own fair share of Irish patriots (i.e., "rebels"), and they'd know exactly how to name what the ABC and Kearon are up to: oppression.<br /><br />And he's factually incorrect if he said that none of the so-called "instruments of communion" has spoken to the issue of jurisdictional incursions. More than one of the Primates' Meeting statements has condemned them, although one usually got the feeling that was a sop, to appear even-handed.<br /><br />They're just no good at BEING even-handed.<br /><br />Thanks for your report, Katie. I feel better about Executive Council, reading how many folks offered challenging, pointed questions.<br /><br />Bryan Taylor, AOJNBryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03235730769141809940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-12995028286599401632010-06-23T11:14:44.309-05:002010-06-23T11:14:44.309-05:00Thanks, Katie, for your report and commentary.
P...Thanks, Katie, for your report and commentary. <br />Perhaps now is the time for us to come up with a theological Declaration of Independence from the CofE. Clearly Canon Kearon as well as Rowan Williams have forgotten the one from 1776.Michael Cudneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11498233049096776895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-46259560020213354122010-06-23T10:53:29.684-05:002010-06-23T10:53:29.684-05:00The Canadian theologian Douglas John Hall has obse...The Canadian theologian Douglas John Hall has observed that there is plenty of theological diveristy in the Scriptures, including the newer testament. To see theological diversity as a problem is, IMV, a denial of the Incarnation, a denial that theology is contextual.Daniel Weirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11430381764138066595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-14452548193343590932010-06-23T10:16:51.281-05:002010-06-23T10:16:51.281-05:00"Different types of full communion"
HUH..."Different types of full communion"<br /><br />HUH?Mary Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02970052534402740820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-39414040959751556702010-06-23T09:03:56.921-05:002010-06-23T09:03:56.921-05:00Wow. Just wow. His inability to articulate an answ...Wow. Just wow. His inability to articulate an answer on questions of communion with the Old Catholic Church and the Church of Sweden is just appalling. Makes you wonder what are we <i>really</i> being punished for doing? Thanks for posting this.SCGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08162762233972733978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-5519851149094543502010-06-23T08:36:27.737-05:002010-06-23T08:36:27.737-05:00Incredible insight into this issue. Thank you!Incredible insight into this issue. Thank you!Rick+https://www.blogger.com/profile/03322574092020268536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-45779072132452074922010-06-23T08:36:16.585-05:002010-06-23T08:36:16.585-05:00Congratulations Ron. I know your presence will add...Congratulations Ron. I know your presence will add much to the Council, since we know it does matter who is in the room when decisions are being made.Katie Sherrodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09159503802660122104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-85167891971838722272010-06-23T07:58:36.049-05:002010-06-23T07:58:36.049-05:00Someone mentioned that Canterbury does not underst...Someone mentioned that Canterbury does not understand The Episcopal Church .... sounds like the Pope & Rome against the American Church !<br /><br />When Kearon mentioned the different degrees of full communion it reminded me of "1986" - all are equal, except some are more equal than others...<br /><br />Thank you for such elucidation in an atmosphere of darking fog.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00400495144468746668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-7063840509850550082010-06-23T07:51:58.817-05:002010-06-23T07:51:58.817-05:00Thanks Katie. We here in Canada just concluded ou...Thanks Katie. We here in Canada just concluded our General Synod. Canon Kearon was present for most of our sessions, reminding us to "behave".<br />On a positive note, I was elected to Council of General Synod (our equivalent to your Executive Committee), and am, to my knowledge, the first openly gay person ever to have been elected.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18375401504108771055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-22586300056496083002010-06-23T07:39:47.305-05:002010-06-23T07:39:47.305-05:00Dear Katie,
I really think this was excellent repo...Dear Katie,<br />I really think this was excellent reporting and I love your commentary....I hope more Episcopalians sign on and read what you have to say<br />Annette GrawUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09705895114721182512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25082628.post-82512121529827731982010-06-23T02:50:40.260-05:002010-06-23T02:50:40.260-05:00I get a bit tired of AC churchmen coming over here...I get a bit tired of AC churchmen coming over here convinced that members of TEC along with most Americans are stupid. <br /><br />Canon Kearon's stunned response to the contradiction posed by the acceptance of the Church of Sweden and the Old Catholics while rejecting TEC told me that he didn't think TEC members were bright enough to see their hands in front of their faces and recognize what was going on. His "all Americans look alike" comment was the same--patronizing and unproductive.<br /><br />As long as AC leaders (the ABC and his staff) treat us as children and fail to drop their pretensions and snobbery, our relationship is going to continue to be at the very least strained.<br /><br />--sheila--hkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08227508456864665262noreply@blogger.com